PDLF Podcast Episode 3 - The Office of Career and Professional Development (OCPD) - Transcript

Lin Song  0:04  
Hey, welcome to the Postdoc Leadership Fellow Podcast. I'm Lin Song, third year postdoc in the Hellen Diller Cancer Center working on lung cancer.

Rachel Rudlaff  0:17  
I'm Rachel Rudlaff. I'm a postdoctoral fellow in Bo Huang's Lab.

April Bell  0:21  
I'm April Bell. I am a second year postdoc with the California Preterm Birth Initiative.

Oleta Johnson  0:27  
And I am Oleta Johnson. I am a third year postdoc, also at the Mission Bay campus, working in Sandler neurosciences building. And in this series, our goal is to promote community at UCSF by connecting you to resources that are important for being a postdoc.

Rachel Rudlaff  00:49
In our third episode, we're here with Dr. Michael Matrone and the associate director from the Office of Career and Professional Development. We really hope you enjoyed this podcast.

Hi, everyone. I'm Rachel, I'm a Postdoc Leadership Fellow and a first year postdoc here at UCSF.

Oleta Johnson  01:07
Hi, everyone. My name is Oleta Johnson. I am a third year postdoc at UCSF and also a Postdoc Leadership Fellow. And Rachel and I are really excited to welcome our esteemed guest. So, please introduce yourself!

Michael Matrone  01:24
Thank you, Oleta, and Rachel. I'm Michael Matrone, and I'm the Associate Director of the Office of Career and Professional Development.

Rachel Rudlaff  01:32
All right, Michael. So, can you first tell us about the Office of Career and Professional Development and how the OCPD serves postdocs?

Michael Matrone  01:41
Absolutely, the Office of Career and Professional Development or OCPD, as we go by, our mission is to teach students and postdoctoral scholars the professional skills that they need for career success. And to that end, we have offer a suite of programs, services, grant funded initiatives, and resources that are specifically tailored to our biomedical scientists. And all of these kind of utilize evidence-based interventions all to help develop key competencies in the areas of like self assessment, or exploring careers, strategies for searching for and applying for jobs, as well as professional success skills.

Oleta Johnson  02:25
Really cool stuff, and I think anybody that has interfaced with OCPD will talk about how awesome and how helpful it is. I've heard zero bad reviews ever, which is like a big deal from like surly, like, postdocs and grad students.

Michael Matrone  02:41
Indeed.

Oleta Johnson  02:43
So, I was wondering maybe on a little bit more of a personal note, what actually drew you into this role in to maybe UCSF more broadly?

Michael Matrone  02:52
Yeah, that's a great question, and thank you for that feedback, by the way, too, because it's good to hear from my point of view, but it's also you know, it speaks to just the reputation that we have not only at UCSF but nationally. So, I've been doing this for about 10 years, since I left my own postdoc. I was a postdoc at Scripps Research in San Diego prior to this career path starting. And when I did, like one of the first things I did hear was about OCPD and just how it was considered the model by which all other offices like ours aspire to be. So, the programs and resources that were developed here are often emulated in my field around the country by other postdoc offices or Career and Professional Development Offices. So, I'd always admired the work that was accomplished here. And so, that was always an attraction. I actually never thought that I'd end up working here, but when I was presented with the opportunity to do so, I kind of, it was just kind of a dream come true. And I just jumped on it. And since then it's been an absolutely wonderful experience.

Rachel Rudlaff  03:56
That's so cool to hear. Yeah, we're so, so lucky to have the Office of Career and Professional Development at UCSF for our postdocs. We're really lucky. So, thinking about our postdoc community, you know, what do most postdocs come to see the Office of Career Professional Development for?

Michael Matrone  04:16
Yeah, most commonly, we see postdocs who are just, one, embarking on their own career explorations or job searches. So, I think more often, somebody who's going right on the job market, and needs help navigating it. Because the applying for jobs outside of academia is a lot different than how you would apply for a faculty role. So that's probably one of the, that's one of the biggest ones, at least from my perspective. The other is that we do see postdocs who need help navigating just their current environments, whether they're having difficulty in the lab or disagreements or conflict with their supervisors, we often see those individuals and we'll help them navigate those situations as well, and have developed quite a number of resources to help support that, such as like having a career conversation with your, your advisor or your supervisor.

Oleta Johnson  05:13
Really great stuff, and I think it's really nice to hear kind of what the commonalities are between people that would typically interface with OCPD. And, I guess to follow up on that, are there any things that you find are really common misconceptions that people come into OCPD with, about kind of how to engage with OCPD? Or like, what things that, you know, the office has to offer for postdocs?

Michael Matrone  05:38
Yeah, I do. And I think the biggest misconception that many have not just postdocs, but postdocs certainly included, is that like they would come to OCPD out of some sort of deficit, that like that were sort of remedial, the, like some lack of achievement was success or some learning that was due to their own personal reasons, their own faults. And that's not the model we prescribed by, we adopt more of a strength model in that, like, we're here to help support your strengths and fill in any of the gaps that the training doesn't provide as a graduate student, or a postdoc, and that we're career neutral. And we consider that all career paths are successful ones and so I think that's the biggest misconception. Sometimes it's also just fear that the admitting that you might need some help or need some help navigating being here at UCSF, or how to get to your next career step. So, I think just knowing that we're here to support you, and they're not going to judge you is, you know, why I would ask some people to come and visit us.

Rachel Rudlaff  06:41
That's so good to hear. I think, it's yeah, it's common that people might see that reaching out to you could be a sign that they're missing something. But I love the Office of Career Development. I tell everyone in my lab, like the second year grad students, like you should go now, start talking to them, like, it's the best thing you can do. So, I'll add that. And so if someone is listening to this, and is unsure if the office can help them, what would you say to them? And, so, I also want to add that I know your office offers a lot of different things from one on one counseling to events to longer term training programs. So, I know that the answer to this might be a little dependent on those frames of reference.

Michael Matrone  07:23
Yeah, and I think at the very least, knowing that we do have a whole wide variety of resources. First, check out our website. That's where you're gonna see who we are, and all that we do, and know what it is that will help fulfill the needs that someone has, a postdoc has. And so, you know, we have many resources. We have a lot of asynchronous programs, as well. So, our intent was to make our resources and content as accessible as possible, so that you can get to where you are, both physically, and like, where are you in this whole, you know, job/career development process. So, I think that'd be step one. I mean, the next, like, I guess, second level, the second step of that would just [be] to reach out to us and make contact. Like you, Rachel, had said that you urge, you know, graduate students or a new, new postdocs in your labs to come visit with us, just, you know, keep doing that. Because, word of mouth certainly helps but just having a one on one appointment with us that you can meet those with whom you would work is  kind of a nice entré into what, how else, what are the resources that we have that can help you. The team in OCPD that works with the PhD and the postdoc population, we're all PhDs ourselves, so, and some of us have done postdocs as well. So, we kind of understand who you all are and the environment in which you work and have created interventions to help you get to the success that you want.

Michael Matrone  07:24
That's obviously really incredible. And I think it's really easy for, you know, people to think of OCPD or career and development as like, 'Okay, I don't need to, you know, worry about this until I'm actively looking for a job.' And, so, I really want to ask, do you have any recommendations for postdocs in, you know, terms of when they should start to engage with with your office?

Michael Matrone  09:21
Yeah, absolutely. I would say within their first year at UCSF is a great time. It takes time to get settled in a new job, and kind of figure out your job. One of the values by which we talk about our roles and OCPD, especially as a new person, is that everybody gets a year to, like, figure it out. And, so, you need some time to like figure out working here, living in San Francisco, getting your life in order. And so I think this is part of it, within your first year, and deciding and talking with somebody about what are your career goals? What are the resources available to help plan your time at UCSF to help support that goal, and, so, learning about them as early as possible is important because like you said, Oleta, you don't want to wait until like six months before you're done. Whether that be because you know your funding is coming to an end, or it's just time to move on. You want to get to that point where you are informed and confident in the decision that you've made and what comes next.

Rachel Rudlaff  10:19
That's super cool to hear. And also, I think great, great advice for new postdocs. When postdocs do come to your office and say, have a one on one with you, what is your goal for how you want them to feel after they've had a meeting?

Michael Matrone  10:33
Yeah, I think first and foremost is I want them to know that their goals are met. So, I always ask, what is it that you want to accomplish in  this meeting so that I'm informed and I can help them get to that goal. But, I think after that, I first want them to feel heard. Having been a postdoc myself, I know that it's an often, I guess, overlooked, marginalized group. You can feel isolated because you were very well supported as a student and now you're in this middle step between your your training as a student and your whatever career comes next. Um, so I think feeling heard and supported is important for the postdoc population. And, really, that you feel at the end of it, empowered to do what comes next. So, I want everybody to know that I'm there to support them, and we in OCPD are there to support them, and to give them the resources that will help them attain a successful career beyond their time here at UCSF.

Oleta Johnson  11:38
Hi, Oleta here. I hope you're enjoying this episode. And if you are, be sure to check out the Postdoc Office website, at postdocs.ucsf.edu to keep up with the latest resources, events, and programming offered to help build community among postdocs, and to help your research and career goals. Also, I encourage you to reach out to any Postdoc Leadership Fellow, if you have any questions about what you're hearing in this episode, or if there's something else you'd like to hear that we haven't covered. And now back to the pod.

I think a lot of postdocs, a lot of our new postdocs, are going to be listening to this and they're going to feel really encouraged by hearing a lot of what you've talked about, about the goals of OCPD, and kind of the way it operates, and really the perspective that you all have as an office to, you know, supporting postdocs at UCSF. So, I actually would like to kind of flip some of that and ask you, based on everything that you shared, which just like from a postdoc perception just sounds incredible, like an incredible resource for us. What is your favorite part of your role as an office and like your role within OCPD?

Michael Matrone  13:01
I guess two things equally come to mind. I always love and find it really empowering for myself and just affirming to hear the success stories from postdocs and how either OCPD or myself individually helped them get to where they needed to get. I love hearing those stories. And I always you know, make it a point at the end of a counseling appointment or in a program is like to reach out to me and tell, you know, me, that great outcome--that like job that you got, that offer that you got, or that fellowship that you got, because I want to help celebrate that, because it should be celebrated. So, I love that part of my job. The other part I love about working in OCPD is actually just the people that I work with. And it just affirmed with me and also what I communicate to postdocs broadly is that like the environment in which you work and the values that you have about where you work are more important than what you're interested in or what you're good at doing. Because if, you know, if the place where you're working is not supportive or where you want to work, the other, the skills and the interests that you have will be not-enjoyable and you'll be miserable in your job. And so what working in OCPD has affirmed to me is that I work with great people in a great place, and that makes my job enjoyable. And something that I didn't realize, you know, when I was a student or postdoc, and what I want help others to realize as they embark on their own career journeys as well.

Rachel Rudlaff  14:33
That's so good to hear. Environment and support are so important. Especially, especially I think we saw in the last year.

Michael Matrone  14:42
Absolutely. Yeah. And that it doesn't doesn't go away and that like you have to keep seeking that out with every career move that you make.

Rachel Rudlaff  14:50
Yeah. So, last kind of question on our end is, what's one thing that your program did for postdocs that you didn't expect? Or what's one thing that surprised you about your role.

Oleta Johnson  15:02
I mean, Michael, while you're thinking.

Michael Matrone  15:04
I'm sorry, am I like--

Oleta Johnson  15:06
No, no, I'll just jump in and say something, which I think from the perspective of a postdoc, and who was like a grad student at a place that had postdocs, but not a dedicated, like office for postdoc career and development, I think is really easy for us to kind of take for granted the fact that your office exists, and like, actually puts in a lot of effort towards like, figuring out how to help postdocs do things, whether it is in the academic space, or the industrial space, or consulting or nonprofits, you know, and so on and so forth in a way that just like doesn't exist in the same way at any other place. And I just think it's really easy to miss that when you don't actively engage with the office. And like, I hope that people can walk away from listening to this resource, really understanding like, the incredible privilege that we have to have, like you and your colleagues at OCPD who are so incredibly thoughtful about, kind of, the issues that affect grad students and postdocs, and the idea that like postdocs have, like equal rights to engage with this resource in a way that like just doesn't exist most other places.

Michael Matrone  16:24
Yeah, for sure, putting it in that framework--thank you, Oleta--I think that is one thing that I can say is that, you know, resources like this, at other universities, don't exist to the extent that we do have here, often because it's usually one person that is, you know, heading up both a postdoc office and it's career and professional development arm. So, that was nice to see us having two separate offices for that, those  two very different kinds of support. I think, secondly, as well is, you know, in so many other, you know, university support systems, as they exists are, you know, often, often exclude the postdoc population. And here, that is not the case, at least for the Career and Professional Development Office. Like, we see people at early in their, their careers as PhD students all the way through their postdoc. We also, what really also really surprised me is that we see folks who, at least in the UC system, who are like, above the postdoc level, and that like, you know, you can only be a postdoc for five years. And so you get quote- unquote promoted to a different title beyond that, yet, you still have access to our services. And the other great thing that I have had quite a few people utilize that you can come and utilize OCPD for a year after you separate from OCPD, or UCSF, pardon me. And so, you know, if you find within that one year, after you've left, do you need some help and guidance, then you can come to us, no questions asked, aside from just confirming that you were once here and that's all I generally do is just Google you and find out what did you work at UCSF before, and if so, then that's fine enough for me. And especially during COVID times when there's been so much uncertainty, and people who had unexpectedly, you know, lost their positions here, we still were able to help them get to the next step.

Rachel Rudlaff  18:25
That's so cool to hear. I think really important to reiterate that you're also here for people once they have left UCSF. And, I also want to add what surprised me, which is, I think the really scientific approach to career development. So, I attended the Train Up program, which is on inclusive mentoring. And it just like all, you know, in science, we like approach problems systematically. And somehow, for some reason, in my brain thinking about like, mentoring, I was like, well, that's just like magic sauce, I can't understand it. And, attending that training, it's like, you all break it down in a scientific way of like, here's what's actually going on. And here's the background. And this is like, why this works the way it does. And this is why these relationships are the way they are. And it just blew my mind apart in so many ways. And I've been so grateful to have that, like, demystifying perspective that your office brings to career development.

Michael Matrone  19:21
Absolutely. Yeah, that is always one thing that's also surprised me often is that how we call it is we have 'evidence based approaches' to how we develop programming. And so, we're very data driven. And then like if there is a hypothesis we have about how something works or how we can intervene on an issue we're seeing or things that we're hearing, you know, we'll form that hypothesis and we'll collect data to try to support it and it's very, like you said, it's very scientific thing. Something that I think has, you know, been come at become a new model, or a new way of doing it and least in the field that I am in. You know, a lot of career education research, as it's put, is very focused on undergraduates. And so within maybe the last five years, there's been more and more attention on research in this area at the graduate level. So, people who are pursuing advanced degrees, and not just, you know, PhDs and postdocs, but also any professional degree. And as the other thing that also surprised me, too, for OCPD is that we, and it is very different from I think almost every other office I can think of around the country, is that we just don't serve the PhD and postdoc population, but we also have a team in our office that serves all the health professional schools. And so, and that is very rare. I can't think of one off the top of my head that does that.

Oleta Johnson  20:51
Before we close out, if it's okay with you, I would like to do one little thing to take us out. And so I realized this, kind of doing another one of these podcasts. And I thought, like, you know, this is for new postdoc. So like, presumably, people are like engaging in this resource. They've just started at UCSF, and they've come from like, other parts of the country or other parts of the world, or you know, even maybe from like different parts of like the state or the Bay Area. And I thought it might be nice for us as people who have been here for some amount of time to maybe like give people recommendations of like, something you absolutely love about living in the Bay Area. And like, something that you think like, 'Well, hey, like, if you really like, you know, music, you might like this concert series,' or something like that. And so I'm happy to start. I think the last time I did music venue, and like music recommendations, so, like, this time, we're just gonna like switch it up to food recommendations. And so, I think one thing that I will say, is in the city, I never had Burmese food until I moved to San Francisco, and both Burma Love and Burma Superstar are incredible. And there's also a Burmese Superstar in Oakland. So, for the East Bay people, which I live in the East Bay now, highly recommend. And then I'll also recommend a bar called Sobre Mesa, which is also an Oakland. They have incredible Afro Caribbean inspired food, and just like phenomenal drinks, and like the drinks are so good that it is very nice that it's like walking distance from Lake Merritt. Because you can go there and like relax before you have to, like, commute anywhere. So I would say Burma Love, Burma Superstar in the city and in the East Bay and also Sobre Mesa in the East Bay, for me. But, you're not limited to food recommendations, anything that you would like to say.

Michael Matrone  22:46
Another one, on that recommendation, and I tried this--this was a recommendation from D'Anne Duncan, she introduced me and I I do love it as well--Mandalay restaurant, which is in the city. I think it's in, in the Richmond District, I think? Also excellent. So, another Burmese place.

Oleta Johnson  23:08
Ooh, that's good to know. I'm gonna check that one out now.

Rachel Rudlaff  23:13
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give a vibes recommendation. And that is just Lake Merritt, all the way around. I live near Lake Merritt, it has gotten me through the pandemic singlehandedly. There's, like, different sections of the lake. There's like party sections of the lake, there's like chill sections of the lake. So, any, any scene you're looking for, if you just take a lap around the lake, I am pretty sure you can find it. So, it's in the East Bay in Oakland, highly recommend.

Michael Matrone  23:40
And I'm gonna recommend, I guess, getting outdoors. So, half the time I was in San Francisco was the pandemic, so I don't have too much perspective on the city itself, just because half of it was lock down. But, one thing that I, of all the times I visited the Bay Area before I moved to it, I had never been to Muir Woods, like North Bay, I guess across the Golden Gate Bridge. It's a little magical place that I had no idea was as such, and you get lost in all these big trees and you're kind of in this valley and everything else disappears. And it's just a beautiful hike and walk. There's many options, and it's not too far from the beach. And so, I think it's a nice little escape from the city. I can also say as a separate recommendation that's not San Francisco but not too far. I now live in Portland, Oregon. I moved away, I used to live here, moved to the Bay, moved back because of the pandemic. Um, but if you're looking for some, a good foodie place to come, if food is your, your jam and you want a great place to go, visit Portland because you cannot go wrong. I would actually say it beats San Francisco.

Oleta Johnson  25:05
I actually, one of my really good friends from grad school is doing her postdoc at OHSU, so I go to visit her often. I would actually agree with that. Also, underrated wine scene.

Michael Matrone  25:17
Yes. Oh my gosh. Come to the Willamette Valley, pinot noir. Yes. It's amazing. It's so close to the city. It's like a 45 minute drive. We go--uh, we haven't been back since we moved back, but I definitely go often.

Rachel Rudlaff  25:31
All right. Well, thank you so much, Michael, for coming and joining us. Thanks for telling us all about the resources that OCPD has to offer.

Michael Matrone  25:38
You are quite welcome. It was my pleasure. And I look forward to postdocs joining us for our programs or meeting me or any of my colleagues in a one on one. We are here to support you all.

Oleta Johnson  25:52
Yes, thank you again, Michael, for your time. And it's been great talking to you

Michael Matrone  25:58
Oleta, Rachel, it also has been great. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

April Bell  26:07
Thank you for listening to the Postdoc Leadership Fellows Podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. But more than that, we hope that it was helpful to you.

Oleta Johnson  26:15
And if it was helpful to you, we encourage you to share this with any postdoc that you think might find this information useful.

Rachel Rudlaff  26:24
As a reminder, you can contact us at any time you can find our information on the Office of Postdoctoral Scholars website, and you can also reach out to the postdoc office.

Lin Song  26:36
Thank you so much to listen this episode.