Lin Song 00:06
Hey, welcome to the Postdoc Leadership Fellow Podcast. I'm Lin Sing, a third year postdoc In the Hellen Diller Cancer Center working on lung cancer.
Rachel Rudlaff 00:15
I'm Rachel Rudlaff. I'm a postdoctoral fellow in Bo Huang's Lab.
April Bell 00:20
I'm April Bell. I am a second year postdoc with the California Preterm Birth Initiative.
Oleta Johnson 00:25
And I am Oleta Johnson. I am a third year postdoc also at the Mission Bay campus, working in Sandler Neurosciences building. And in this series, our goal is to promote community at UCSF by connecting you to resources that are important for being a postdoc.
In our sixth episode, we're here with Dr. Andrew Parker from the faculty and staff assistance program or F-SAP. We hope you enjoy.
Hi, everyone. Welcome. We are here today to talk about another resource that is super useful for postdocs and offered at UCSF. My name is Oleta Johnson. I am a third year postdoc at UCSF. I work at Mission Bay campus and I am one of the Postdoc Leadership Fellows. I am here with my colleague Rachel.
Rachel Rudlaff 01:29
Hi, yeah, I'm Rachel Rudlaff. I'm a first year postdoc at UCSF in Mission Bay and I'm also a Postdoc Leadership Fellow.
Oleta Johnson 01:36
And we are super excited to welcome our guest today from FSAP. Dr. Andrew Parker. So, do you mind giving a brief introduction to who you are?
Andrew Parker 01:47
Sure. So, I'm a clinical psychologist been in the field for 30 plus years. And prior to coming to UCSF a great deal of my experience has been in private practice, was in program development. I've run both residential and outpatient rehabilitation programs, worked at the San Francisco VA Hospital and the Vet Center, and for the Swords to Plowshares program for homeless veterans.
Oleta Johnson 02:17
Awesome. So tons of experience, which I think a lot of people listening are gonna be like, "Okay, this is a person who is definitely like up for the challenge of like, whatever I might come to them with." Could you, do you mind giving us, starting us off with a short description of your office and the way that your office serves, postdocs.
Andrew Parker 02:37
Certainly, so the faculty and staff assistance program provides free confidential counseling to all faculty and staff, and that includes postdocs, and we deal with both personal and work related issues. So, pretty much anything that somebody might need our kind of help for, we're available. And we have a great deal of experience working with postdocs in particular, we see anywhere from 60 to 100 every year, you know, we're very familiar with the challenges and stresses that that postdocs face working in an institution like UCSF, particularly postdocs coming from other parts of the world. I should mention that we are a short term treatment provider, meaning that if somebody really has a very serious long term need, one of the things we do is try to get them hooked up with an outside provider in the community as soon as we can. Someone who takes their insurance plan, of course, so they're not, it's not very costly. And sometimes that just happens. Sometimes people come to UCSF, already with some serious issues, and they know it and they've gotten treatment before and they might just need our help getting a referral for, you know, a specialized outside provider. But if it's something that we can handle on a relatively short term model, then we're happy to do it.
Rachel Rudlaff 03:56
Yeah, that's, that's really cool. We're so lucky to have the Faculty Staff Assistance Program, because this is such a challenging part of training. To kind of move a little bit towards you and in your role with FSAP, what drew you to this role? And what drew you to working at UCSF?
Andrew Parker 04:13
Well, I've been here about 20 years now. You know, initially I came because while I have a strong background in individual clinical work, I also happen to have a lot of background and experience in dealing with organizational issues. And that's a big part of what we do at FSAP actually, you know, we we don't just provide individual counseling, but we do a lot of consultations with the organization leadership, around anything from threat management, to substance abuse to training people and how to communicate better or deal more effectively with stress, things like that. So, we do a lot of educational and other kinds of organizational interventions. And that's something that particularly interested me and was one of the main draws for me coming to work here.
Oleta Johnson 05:05
Awesome. I mean, that is so much expertise in so many different things. I'm wondering what sorts of issues do you find postdocs most commonly come to you with?
Andrew Parker 05:18
Well, for example, over the last year, which, you know, of course, that was all during the pandemic, so, we have to keep that in mind. But sort of among personal issues that postdocs come to us for, I'd say, the top ones are anxiety and depression, which can be for all sorts of reasons, of course, but also, I would add that another big personal issue that postdocs come to us for help with are their, you know, with their primary relationships, you know, marriage or significant other, and, you know, let's face it, you know, the life of a postdoc is very demanding, it can be very stressful, and that can in turn impact people's personal relationships in all sorts of ways. On the work related side, it's mainly around two things. One are, you know, occupational and career issues, you know. "Where, where am I going from here?" You know, "Will I be able to move on from my postdoc to get a good academic position somewhere?" You know, "What are the obstacles that I'm encountering dealing with things like that?" And the other the other big one are interpersonal relations, which won't be too surprising. You know, just just the challenges of working in a lab, for example, people with different personalities, different backgrounds, sometimes the principal investigator, the faculty member whose lab they're working under, maybe a brilliant scientist, but not particularly in skillful at leadership, you know, and how to resolve conflicts and, you know, deal with interpersonal dynamics, things like that, you know, or sometimes, sadly, you know, a PI might see the postdoc as more there to serve their own personal goals, rather than to serve the postdocs career goals. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. But, you know, not every not every PI is as supportive as they could be. And that sometimes will impact the well being of the postdocs who come to us.
Rachel Rudlaff 07:14
Well, I have to say, for people listening, I just want to say that Oleta and I are vigorously nodding and smiling during that list. It's really, it's great to hear all of those things out loud, I think, because frequently I know for myself and from other postdocs that I know those are really common things that people struggle with. But it's good to hear like, that's all those things are kind of, I don't want to say normal, but those are things that happen to a lot of people and things that your office can help with. So, going from there, you know, what kind of misconceptions do people have about using the services from FSAP? Or what might hold them back?
Andrew Parker 07:55
Well, of course, I think one of the big ones is maybe not understanding just how strict we are about confidentiality. People might be concerned that coming to us will end up on their personnel record or otherwise, you know, somehow present an obstacle to them moving on. Now, there still is, let's face it, a certain amount of stigma to accessing mental health services. And in some parts of the world, mental health services are considered to be only for people who are really seriously mentally ill, you know, whereas we see we rarely see people who have like the an actual diagnosable psychiatric condition. Most of what we see are people struggling with the just the challenges of life and being a postdoc, and dealing with those stresses, you know. So, but all of our, our work with our clients, particularly with postdocs, none of that goes into a personnel record. It's all strictly confidential, no one will even know that somebody has come to us for help, let alone what they came to talk about, without their written permission.
Oleta Johnson 09:02
I think there are a lot of people who are listening and who are hearing this and are gonna feel super reassured and super kind of affirmed in any desire that they might have to reach out to your office. But, like you said, there's still a bit of a barrier. And also, you know, I think there are a lot of us out there who feel like, okay, but like, I know that this is tough, but like, maybe it's not tough enough to go and talk to someone at FSAP. Or like, maybe I'm being dramatic about this, or you know, will do all these things to invalidate their perspective. So if someone is listening to this, and they're unsure if your office can be helpful to them, or is hesitant about reaching out, what would you say to them?
Andrew Parker 09:48
Well, I think the first thing I would say is that it never hurts to ask. Right? It never hurts for example, to ask, you know, a fellow postdoc if they've been to FSAP and what their experience was. That's a very low threshold way to get reassured. Also, you know, we, our services are strictly voluntary, meaning that nobody can be made to come see us, not by their PI not by the dean's office, not by anyone. And we want people to come of their own free will. And sometimes they do have questions before they decide to pursue treatment with us. And that's perfectly okay. So we, you know, we encourage people if they are interested, but not sure to just schedule, you know, a call with one of our counselors, and they can just, they can just explore the idea of what would happen and what they might want to talk about. And even just somehow talking to a real live human being, can sometimes make the whole thing more, you know, more approachable, more, you know, more easily acceptable.
Rachel Rudlaff 10:56
I'm wondering, this isn't the direct next question that we have, but can you give us an explanation of how a postdoc would tend to walk through the pipeline of using FSAP services? Like, what that timeline would look like? And what the process would look like, just to give them a little more of an idea of, you know, say, I would think about calling FSAP today, what what's this process going to look like for me?
Andrew Parker 11:19
Okay, so let's say somebody decides to call, they would call, our main number, which might as well mentioned, is 415-476-8279. And they'll reach our program assistant, you know, who is very skilled at dealing with all sorts of questions and issues and problems. And depending on the nature of the issue, and how urgent it is, they can expect to be scheduled for an intake appointment within a couple of weeks. If it's very urgent, we'll get them in sooner, we usually have one person on the team on any given day, who has a lighter schedule, so they can handle emergencies, they can handle crises, they can handle, you know, queries about our services and things like that. So we do try to remain as flexible as we can, despite the high demand on our services. So that, you know, we can get people in who are, you know, in urgent need as soon as possible. And so they'll be set, they will schedule with an intake appointment with one of the counselors who will review with them all the issues around confidentiality, and so forth. And then they'll, you know, they'll work together with the postdoc to determine what are their goals for treatment? What are they hoping to get help with? Where do they want to end up? You know, when all is said and done, and so forth? And then, you know, it's very much of a collaborative process.
Rachel Rudlaff 12:42
Awesome, thank you. And so then our next kind of question is, when do you recommend postdocs contact FSAP? If you know, at what point in some challenge, would you recommend that they begin to reach out?
Andrew Parker 12:57
Well, you know, as both of you have mentioned, you know, sometimes people are hesitant to come for all sorts of reasons. And sometimes people wait too long. They, you know, they wait until the house is burning down, rather than just they smell some smoke. So we know, we will help people at any stage of the game, but we know we actually encourage people to come sooner rather than later. You know, oftentimes, if people come when they're just beginning to recognize, let's say that they're suffering from anxiety, you know, or depression or something like that. The sooner somebody comes, the fewer sessions they're likely to need, because we can help them before the problem really becomes very serious. So there is a lot to be said for identifying one's needs early on, and reaching out for help then rather than waiting until you know, somebody is about to lose their job, or you know, or their marriage is about to break up or something like that. Right? So it's, you know, it's, it's a hard thing for people to judge on their own. Sometimes, and that's why again, I you know, we encourage people to ask around, talk to colleagues, other postdocs, you know, who have accessed our services. But you know, overall, I would say, you know, don't, don't wait too long. The old saying of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure really applies here, too, right? The coming sooner sometimes might mean, a few sessions, you know, will help somebody get sorted out.
Oleta Johnson 14:34
Hi, Oleta here. I hope you're enjoying this episode. And if you are, be sure to check out the postdoc office website at postdocs.ucsf.edu to keep up with the latest resources, events and programming, offered to help build community among postdocs and to help your research and career goals. Also, I encourage you to reach out to any Postdoc Leadership Fellow, if you have any questions about what you're hearing in this episode, or if there's something else you'd like to hear that we haven't covered, and now back to the pod.
And our next question, I think it will be hard to, is hard to answer, kind of at face value, which is like, "Oh, what is the goal for a postdoc that engages with you," and it you know, based on the number of different things that you might see a postdoc about, that's probably going to be really different and really personal. So, I'm going to reframe it and say, you know, postdocs are listening to this podcast right now. And they're like, "Yeah, okay, like, this sounds good. But, like, okay." What would you like a postdoc, to walk away from listening to this resource, thinking and feeling about FSAP, as an office that is available to us?
Andrew Parker 15:59
Well, I'd say a couple of things. Keep in mind that, as you as you yourselves know, you know, a postdoc is kind of a temporary employee, right? They're, you know, this is a stepping stone on their way to an academic career of some kind, or maybe a career in industry. And so it's not intended to be a permanent position, right? they have a goal to accomplish, and that includes all sorts of things. You know, first of all, you know, doing good science, publishing good articles, getting good letters of recommendation from their PI's, etc. So that's, you know, that's the goal that we keep in mind, you know, is that they are, they are here to accomplish something. And sometimes, life gets in the way of that. Sometimes people get in their own way, inadvertently, you know, they may, they may compound their own issues through something like say, substance abuse, or something of that sort. So, we're here to help postdocs, remove those obstacles, so that they can accomplish the goals that they've come here to achieve. And depending on the nature of the obstacles, you know, that might be something fairly straightforward, or it might be something more complex and require longer help. But that's how we view it.
Rachel Rudlaff 17:19
That's really cool. I'm hoping that the folks listening to this feel really empowered to use the services at FSAP. I know it can be really hard to reach out, especially if you are in that house is already burning down phase, like, "The house is already burning down. I don't have time." But yeah, I'm really hoping that this will encourage people to reach out. And, you know, closing note, we want to learn a little bit more about the folks that are are really helping our community out by offering new services. So, just to learn a couple things about you, you know, what's your favorite thing about this job?
Andrew Parker 17:53
Well, honestly, it's just a marvelous way to be of service, you know, because because we we provide such a wide array of services, not just to individuals. Like, for example, we offer couples counseling for when, when both members are part of the UCSF community, we offer biofeedback for people who need help managing their stress, you know, we have, you know, services such as such as what's called EMDR, which is for people who have prior traumatic experiences that they haven't resolved, things like that. So, we have a wide range of services, we provide individuals as well as to the organization and I find that variety, interesting, compelling. You know, it's one of the things that gets me up in the morning, our mantra is never a dull moment.
Oleta Johnson 18:42
That's incredible. And I've already learned a lot. I mean, as a person who like I'll say this out loud, especially because I think it's important for postdocs to hear, I've definitely had contact and engaged with services through FSAP, and they've been extremely, extremely helpful for me. But even as a person who has already kind of interfaced with this office, I've learned things that I was surprised by today. So, I was wondering if you've learned or if there's anything through your experience working at FSAP that you you've learned or any ways that you've engaged with postdocs that you didn't necessarily expect when you first stepped into the role?
Andrew Parker 19:24
Well, I think that one thing I found is just something about the incredible diversity of of humanity. We see people from all across the US, all across the world. I've had a chance to work with people from several dozen different countries. You know, it's been for me, it's just been a you know, even even though I've lived a good long while now, it's been a marvelously broadening experience, you know, to be able to appreciate despite our diversity we are you know, we are one species, despite being one species we are incredibly diverse. And it's been you know, it's been particularly, you know, enlightening for me.
Rachel Rudlaff 20:03
That's awesome. Also, in the spirit of what Oleta said before asking this question, I have also used FSAP. That was a great, very important experience for me over the past year. I highly recommend other people do as well. Our last question is for our new postdocs, since most of this will be for folks coming into the Bay Area, or even perhaps, maybe, hopefully not too much working remotely for now, you know, do you have any recommendations for things, things that you like best about the Bay Area, even if those are pre COVID? Hopefully, someday we'll be back to that. You know, any, anything that you would recommend somebody new to the area checks out?
Andrew Parker 20:41
Well, you know, despite the fact that San Francisco itself, and the Bay Area is very urban, you know, just a short distance away in almost any direction are some just wonderful, natural resources, places that you know, it can be very enlivening and beautiful. And I hate to see, you know, our community members, so, so caught up in their work that they never get a chance to experience some of that, you know, we have, up in Marin County, you know, we have several lovely beaches, you know, there's Muir Woods, etc, Mount Tamalpias, there's camping in the area, and so on. So, I would just say, you know, don't let the work so completely overrun your life that you don't get a chance to enjoy some of that. It's really, you know, for me, I find it very refreshing, you know, and keeps keeps me going.
Oleta Johnson 21:39
Incredible recommendations. Rachel, I want to pose the same question to you. Are there any things that you would recommend, since you've been in the bay area as a postdoc?
Rachel Rudlaff 21:52
So, well, this one's a little further out there, but I just got back from a trip in Yosemite. I was backpacking with my sister, and you have to do, like, permits this year. But it's actually kind of nice, because it means it's less of a zoo. So, there's kind of fewer people around because of the pandemic. But it's absolutely gorgeous out there. So I think you can get there by like Amtrak and bus? Probably just rent a car, though, make your life a little easier.
Andrew Parker 22:18
Yeah, if you've never been to Yosemite, it's not to be missed.
Oleta Johnson 22:22
100% agree. I went, I think my first year I had a friend fly in from Michigan. And he was like, we're going to Yosemite. And I got there. And I just remember thinking, oh, like artists have been trying for forever to like recapitulate this level and magnitude of beauty. And it's just here. Like, we get to enjoy it.
Rachel Rudlaff 22:44
It's a four hour drive.
Oleta Johnson 22:47
And worth every minute. And, I will give a couple of recommendations. So, I mentioned art. I love art, if you get a chance to go to the museums--actually, just make a chance to go to the museum. Almost every museum in the city of San Francisco has free days for residents. So take advantage of that. The de Young Museum is amazing. SFMOMA is incredible. And there are a lot of--the Legion of Honor is incredible as well. But, there are also a bunch of smaller museums. There's the museum for Art for the African Diaspora, which is very close to SFMOMA. There's a few Asian history, Asian American history museums.
Andrew Parker 23:32
Don't forget the Exploratorium.
Oleta Johnson 23:34
Yes, yes, the Exploratorium! And, you know, hopefully, when COVID is like, long behind us, they have like nights where they have like bar setup. And it's like adult social fun, but also Exploratorium science. So yeah, yeah, good call. And also, hopefully, post COVID. There lots of great museums in Oakland as well, which is where I am now moving. Rachel lives in Oakland, so she just did a little celebration for me. But, yeah, the there are a lot of great, there's a ton of great street art, especially in both the city and in Oakland. So, if you love art, just like take a walk around, just explore. Highly recommended it. There's so much to see. And with that. I mean, does anybody have any closing words? Anything to leave listeners with?
Andrew Parker 24:26
Well, I'll just reiterate what I've said already, Oleta, which is to all of our postdocs. You know, if you need our kind of help, we're there. Please don't hesitate. We're happy to be of service.
Oleta Johnson 24:40
Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I would say just my dad always says stay balanced, right. Stay balanced. When you look back at graduate school, that one day you didn't go to lab didn't make or break anything, your dissertation. It didn't make or break that paper. And it's so easy to get caught up in the hustle and bustle of the things that are right in front of you. And I say this as a person that still struggles with this. So I mean, just take a minute, take a breath, enjoy life, life is for living, not just for working.
Andrew Parker 25:11
Amen to that.
Rachel Rudlaff 25:12
Yes.
Oleta Johnson 25:14
All right. Well, thank you.
Andrew Parker 25:16
Thank you.
April Bell 25:22
Thank you for listening to the Postdoc Leadership Fellows podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. But more than that, we hope that it was helpful to you.
Oleta Johnson 25:30
And if it was helpful to you, we encourage you to share this with any postdoc that you think might find this information useful.
Rachel Rudlaff 25:40
As a reminder, you can contact us at any time you can find our information on the Office of Postdoctoral Scholars website, and you can also reach out to the postdoc office.
Lin Song 25:51
Thank you so much for listening to this episode.