Lin Song 00:05
Hi, welcome to the Postdoc Leadership Fellow podcast. I'm Lin Song, a 3rd year postdoc in the Helen Diller Cancer Center working on lung cancer.
Rachel Rudlaff 00:15
I'm Rachel Rudlaff. I'm a postdoctoral fellow in Bo Huang's Lab.
April Bell 00:19
I'm April Bell. I am a second year postdoc with the California Preterm Birth Initiative.
Oleta Johnson 00:25
And I am Oleta Johnson. I am a third year postdoc, also at the Mission Bay campus, working in Sandler Neurosciences building. And in this series, our goal is to promote community at UCSF by connecting you to resources that are important for being a postdoc. In our seventh episode, we're here with Dr. Rigney Turnham, another postdoc at UCSF to talk about the Postdocs Scholars Association, postdoc interest groups, and postdoc community at UCSF. We hope you enjoy.
Lin Song 01:11
Hi, my name is Lin and I'm a third year postdoc in Helen Diller Cancer Center, also a Postdoc Leadership Fellow and also work for Postdoc Scholars Association as co-chair, today with my colleagues Oleta.
Oleta Johnson 01:25
Hi, I'm Oleta Johnson. I am also a third year postdoc. I work in Sandler Neurosciences at the Mission Bay campus and I am also a Postdoc Leadership Fellow and also involved in the Postdoc Scholars Association and also a founder of a postdoc interest group. And I'm really, really, really excited to be in this conversation with Lin, who started at the same time as me and is also in the PSA with me, and our friend and colleague Rigney. So, Rigney we'll let you introduce yourself.
Rigney Turnham 01:56
Thanks, Oleta and Lin. Hi, I'm Rigney Turnham. I'm also a third year postdoc in the Gordan lab. We're at Byers Hall in Mission Bay campus. So, I am also on the board of the PSA leadership and excited to chat with my two amazing colleagues.
Oleta Johnson 02:13
And you also have a postdoc interest group.
Rigney Turnham 02:15
And that's true. I also have a postdoc interest group, as do you.
Oleta Johnson 02:20
Could you just give the listeners, so our target, we're talking to new brand new postdocs, right? And so, we thought it would be nice to just start off with a short description of who you are and what you do, as it relates to the PSA and PDIGs. And because we all have experience here, this it'll probably be a lot more of an open ended conversation. But we'll, we'll let you speak first because you're the star today.
Rigney Turnham 02:49
Great. So yeah, as you mentioned, I'm representing the postdoctoral, Postdoctoral Scholars Association, one of our programs, the postdoctoral scholars interest group, so the PDIGs. So, as all of you, I'm sure, are aware, UCSF is home to over 1000 postdocs, and our PSA, the mission of the PSA is to help connect postdocs and together create a sense of community. And, to go one step further into our official mission is, is actually threefold, to develop a sense of community by fostering professional and social interactions among postdoc scholars throughout UCSF. It's also to provide a forum to disseminate accurate information and address issues relevant to postdoctoral scholars. And thirdly, to promote a productive dialogue among the postdocs, postdoctoral scholars, the administration, and the faculty. And so the PDIGS are a way for postdocs and other members of the community to come together over any shared interest, whether it be science or social, or even outdoorsy. The PSA provides funding for your event. And before the pandemic, we had a budget of around $50 for most PDIGs, which is sufficient to provide like something like light snacks and drinks at PDIGs meetings. So for now, during the pandemic, we still have budgets for PDIGs, but it's shifted from providing food to paying for maybe like a Jackbox subscription or something like cool prizes, for example. So, there's still ways that the PSA can help fund PDIGs and it's just gotten more creative during the pandemic. And I just want to kind of say that starting a PDIG is super easy, you can go to our website psa.ucsf.edu and fill out our PDIG interest form to start advertising your event to all UCSF postdocs.
Lin Song 04:29
Thank you, Rigney. It's very well said. PSA is really a inclusive forum for anyone who wants to come, to have postdocs, and make a positive impact. And also we serve as a bridge between postdocs with the other organizations in the bay area or nationally, also as a bridge between postdocs and arbitrators. Oleta, do you have anything to add? I know you also started an amazing PDIG group.
Oleta Johnson 05:05
Yeah, I mean, I'll just echo I think probably, I agree with everything Rodney said 100%. And, I will say that the PSA, I think, I encourage postdocs to get involved to the PSA to any extent they want to. So, just to be very explicit Lin and Rigney are my friends. And I met them literally through the PSA, and like PSA events. So, it's like a great, I mean, you talk about having a sense of community, like, it's a great way to meet people. And my postdoc interest group is really kind of about fostering community, particularly around black and indigenous postdocs at UCSF, and it was super easy to start, it was super easy to get support. And so, I just want to say that, like, if you see a need for you, and it doesn't have to be anything official, it doesn't have to be anything scientific. If you want to start a group around people who really love watching soccer, or basketball, or like, like very fancy coffee, you know, we really want to create community, so again, the process is super easy. Like, you have to really try to like not get approval, and I don't even want to know what that looks like. So shout out to the PDIGs.
Rigney Turnham 05:14
I can just kind of echo what you just said too. So um, my the PDIG that I lead is the Women Postdoc Peer Mentoring meeting, and I lead it currently co-leading it with Stephanie Redmond. And previously we, when we were again meeting all in person, she would have meetings at Parnassus, and then I would hold meetings at Mission Bay. And now we've kind of combined them, but we also currently, so leaders, PDIGs, UPRISE, we have the postdoc blog, a scholars digest for postdocs that are interested in blogging or writing. We have our improv at UCSF group, which are all active PDIGs again as of August 2021. But, previously, we've had the Global Festival Cafe, a management and mentorship PDIG, the Graduate and Postdoc Queer Alliance, which is again, kind of we're working on getting them back into the active PDIG, uh, mathematical modeling for biology workshop, a programming group, climate emergency response, and an immunology club. We've also had a virtual book club and I think that's the one thing that is, transcends, I think all of us is the fact that we've heard about this, a coffee tasting PDIG, which I wish someone would bring back because that sounds super fun.
Oleta Johnson 07:36
Sorry, I want to add one more thing. It's so easy to start a PDIG somebody is involved in two. So, April Bell, who is also a postdoc Leadership Fellow, and co-founded and co-leads the uprise PDIG also has the book club, right. So, that's how simple it is to start your own PDIG.
Lin Song 07:56
Let's talk a little bit about ourselves. What brought or drew us to UCSF in general, and helped bring you to the PDIGs or PSA. Oleta, do you want to start?
Oleta Johnson 08:10
Sure. I'm okay if I'm keeping it above with you. When I went to, I went to the University of Michigan for grad school and like Michigan is great, Ann Arbor is great, shout out to the Wolverines, Go Blue. But, you know, after my PhD, I was like I want to go to someplace that is like also, you know, really awesome and has, you know a lot of science and really a lot of science that's in kind of the Chemical Biology space that I work in. And you know, two of my best options really were Boston or the Bay, and I was sick of the snow. So, I wanted to come to the bay. But also, the lab that I work in now, I'm in the Gestwicki lab. The Gestwicki lab, I knew it was on my radar since I was in Michigan, and they just do really cool work. And so, that really motivated me to come to UCSF. So, I really truly came for the science at the end of the day. In terms of the PSA, when I first got here, you know, I moved out here I didn't have any family here, any friends here. I'm originally from South Carolina. So, it's very far away from home for me and I know there are so many of you that are going to be able to relate to being, you know, far away from home even farther than I am. So, yeah, I was just like how do I meet other people? You know, it's weird because you don't really have a formal cohort of people like you do in grad school. And so, I like randomly went to a PSA happy hour after my orientation and I went and just kind of awkwardly stood around and hoping somebody would speak to me and then Rigney was like, "uh, hi." Every time I saw Rigney for like the next four weeks, you'd be like, "You should come to a PSA meeting. It's really easy. You should come to the PSA meetings." So, Rigney was my entree into PSA. Rigney, you go next. [laughter]
Rigney Turnham 10:08
Oh, thank you. Yes, I do remember meeting you at the first Happy Hour are just like, "Oh, hey, can we be friends?" And look, here we are, hosting a podcast together. Yeah, I guess my background too, I had the same kind of background as Oleta, not in chemical, not in like college or university. But I did my PhD at UW in Seattle. And again, like you have a cohort of graduate students, you have kind of like not necessarily forced friends, but at least friends that you are going through the same thing as you all the time. And so when I moved here, and again, I moved here because I wanted to be closer to where like cool industry biotechnology, like cool science was happening. I knew that I knew pretty early on that I didn't want to continue into the academic track. But, I really enjoyed still doing bench science and still do. So, UCSF, again, being in the Bay Area, and being one of like the top university in the country was very attractive. And I met my PI, and I was, like I am, still am his first postdoc. And so, that was also very isolating. When I got here, being the only postdoc, everybody else was a, we had no grad students in my lab. And I felt the kind of the same, like, I need some community basically, like how can I get more involved. And so I went to like, they had a PSA meeting, it was trying to recruit more people. And I think the three of you were there. And again, like we've come pretty far from that first day, and it's been just such a fun ride we've done I feel like it's it's not very often we get to step back and look back at our accomplishments at the PSA. But if we think back to everything that we've done is is pretty cool and like where we can take this and even something as simple as like again, this like podcast recording like this is such a great idea and going to be useful, I hope useful, for so many postdocs at UCSF trying to navigate onboarding and life as a postdoc. So, I think this is super cool and I'm so glad to have met all of you that like very first PSA meeting, and Oleta before, it was at the happy hour.
Oleta Johnson 12:39
Your turn, Lin.
Lin Song 12:42
It's so funny to think of how we met and how we develop the friendship and how we were like along together I really have joined this community and met you guys. So, how I got involved in PSA, I would say also similar story. I did my PhD in Germany before I moved here in 2019 I moved here, knew nobody, and I had no friends at all. So, it's really a great place to like start, for new interesting persons to learn from each other. Speaking of how I came to UCSF in general, I think this would be tied to, I already have my PhD in and training background. I think when I was teenager I really wanted to be a medical doctor because I believed the medical doctor has the medicine, you have a disease. So, yeah, around 17 years old or so I went to medical school in China dreaming to be trained to be a practitioner. When I turned 21 year old, I felt for the first time very frustrated because I was interning in the hospital and in the pathology department. Already, I was typing reports and realized so much patients already in the state of cancer to reports that it is. That makes me feel very frustrated. So, I decided to do a PhD in a genetic disease. So, I moved to Germany do fundamental research on the genetic diseases. And, four years later, I realized there's a huge gap between fundamental research and clinical applications. So, I moved again, here, to study for a career in translational medicine to translate the patient into the mouse model and how the therapy works. That's how mine journey to come to UCSF.
Oleta Johnson 14:43
Awesome. And, you know, I think one of the things that is highlighted through us sharing our stories is you know, we are coming from really different places, we do very different science, but in so many ways. we've had very similar experiences and I think a lot of that is a testament to, you know, the environment and in the fact that we're all connected today, which is like, you know, that wasn't like, necessarily like we planned that. So, um, you know, I think that really does speak to the power of community, even though we're involved in different ways, and you know, come from different backgrounds. So, I love that for us. And, so I think the next thing that I would be curious, or I'm interested to talk about with you guys, is kind of what are the most common ways through PSA or through PDIGS that we interact with other postdocs? Like, do people come to ask for specific sorts of problems or like, what sorts of people want to come and start a PDIG? So, I know we've talked about some of the PDIGs that exists. But you know, I think it's worth being really intentional and calling that out. Rigney, if you want to start.
Rigney Turnham 15:51
Yeah, and I think there's definitely something, like, I really appreciate the fact that now that I'm on the PSA leadership board, postdocs feel comfortable enough to come--and maybe this is also again as a PDIG leader of one of the PDIGs that I run--and come to me for any sort of questions. Again, I feel like I just get questions from a variety of things from like postdocs having visa issues, postdocs having plagiarism issues, postdocs having issues with their PIs. Either they reached out to me personally over email, or actually, the PSA has a Slack. I'm open to any postdoc, again, I recommend postdocs join our Slack channel, because it's pretty, fairly active. I think we maybe can get back to being more active post-pandemic, whenever that may be. But, I just want to say that being a postdoc leader, also, I don't know how to say this, being a postdoc leader helps you like be more in the forefront of other postdocs minds. Like, if they have an issue, they might know who to turn to when they look at the PSA and our website and see our names. And maybe we've met like, at a an event or something, and they feel comfortable to reach out for any sort of problem or issue or achievement, maybe? I don't want to always harp on the negative of our lives, but there are some hardships for sure. Did that answer your question?
Oleta Johnson 17:23
Yes, it surely did. And I would be interested in also hearing, Lin, from your experience, how you've interacted with postdocs, and like the sorts of things that postdocs have come to you about?
Lin Song 17:37
I don't have the experience that people come to me to ask for one to one meeting. I would say more or less seeking to hear an opinion. Because they know I am also a postdoc, have seen my experience, might be able to find the solution. And, also, I would you say a similar, like, what Rigney said, many in postdocs come to me because they don't know, is there a resource help them or if there's an office, in charge of those things. They come to me hoping I can connect them to that corresponding office or the resource manager help them out. And, of course, the reason they come to me is sometimes is different, no matter which issue, like if you reach out to one to seeking for like a future career. So, how about you Oleta?
Oleta Johnson 18:37
Totally, yeah, I mean, I will echo a lot of what you guys have said, I see a lot of, a really diverse array of things that postdocs will kind of consult with us for everything, again, echoing from visa issues to kind of interlab conflict and how to handle that, to, like, weird, like, Who do I talk to in HR. And I think one of the powerful things about us as kind of peer leaders is that we have gone through a lot of these issues or like know, somebody who has gone through a lot of these issues personally, and our job, and I'm not, you know, I think one of the things that has come out of a lot of our conversations is we've talked to people at different offices that we'll be explicit about, like, we don't want to just like kick the can and like, have you on a wild goose chase on how to get the answer. But, you know, in many cases that it happens, you know, there you can't control for that all the time. And I think we try really hard to make it easy because we're speaking from our experience as other postdocs. And the thing that I'll add, too, is again, thinking about like, why people might start a postdoc interest group. I really want to highlight that because you know when April and I started UPRISE, you know, it's something that had been bothering me for a really long time is like, "Yo," like, especially when I first moved to San Francisco, as a black woman. I'd never, I mean, I've been in predominantly white situations before, but like, it was kind of daunting to be like, "Okay, I go home, I'm the only black person" and "I get on the shuttle, and I'm the only black person" and "I come into lab and I'm the only black person," and there's like this weird pressure. But I didn't know what to do about it and April, kind of was trying to organize and decide what to do. And we ended up getting connected through Gabi. So like, shout out to Dean Monsalve of the postdoc office who is just like, incredible support for all postdocs. But we were connected in by by Gabi, who. And when we talked, we were like, this is a really good reason to start a PDIG, right? And, I think similar things have happened with kind of the role of Festival Cafe is, I think, another really good example of like, you know, they were just like, listen, like, there's a lot of diversity in the bay, and like a lot of diversity at UCSF, like, most of our postdocs here are international. Shouldn't we like be able to celebrate that experience and learn from each other? Like, we're literally here to learn from each other? Right? So you know, I think that is a really good reason. So, I mean, the mathematical modeling, right? Like, it's very niche, and it's very in the weeds, but like, it's understandable when you come here, like a lot of us, you know, we come here for the science, right? And you might want to create community, but you want to create community with people who are going to synergize with your goals, which is like to accomplish your research. So, you know, I really can't say enough positive things about that part of interacting with postdocs.
Lin Song 21:53
Really good summary. I think I have one more to add on. It's also we receive a lot of emails, requests from external people who are not UCSF postdocs, though, is that they might have their office has wonderful program, their organization have wonderful opportunities, there's, there has found new opportunities or job opportunity for postdocs, we also kind of serve as a platform for those information as well to our own postdocs.
Rigney Turnham 22:26
Can I just add one more thing to that, too? And again, thanks a leader for sharing, I wanted to circle back to on how postdocs can get information that they need. And also the the great thing about having a group and having this PSA Group is that if one of us doesn't know the answer, we can utilize everyone else's communal knowledge and get that postdoc with the right information and with the the right resources to make them to help them out or to make them make their lives easier. And so that's the other great thing I think about the PSA is that we do have that group knowledge, that communal knowledge. That's super cool.
Lin Song 23:03
Very well said, Rigney. I think we definitely have a harbor for networking. And what's the misconceptions postdocs have about PDIGs and the PSA? What's your guy's opinion on that?
Rigney Turnham 23:17
I think one comment, I guess, when speaking specifically about PDIGs is that if you have any idea, that one misconception is that that idea cannot be a PDIG. And so I want to like squash that. Any idea that you have that involves basically any aspect of being a postdoc, whether that is social, active, like science related, if you have an idea for an event, and you get like one other person there, that's a PDIG, and we can provide resources and funding for you to have this idea, like, continue to go forward and create whatever sense of whatever community that you want to create with that I just want to do like, it's like Oleta said in the beginning, it's really easy to make a, to basically create a PDIG, we have a super simple form on our website that gets kind of recycled every year. And we have different call outs for applications. But any idea that, basically any idea that you have, it could totally be a PDIG.
Oleta Johnson 24:14
Yeah, I totally will agree. Plus one to everything Rigney just said, and then I'll add a couple of things. So one, I want to say that I think a common misconception is that, "Oh, if I like get involved with the PSA, it's going to be a lot of work and a big distraction." And, I just want to say that that is absolutely not the case. You know, it's choose your own adventure around these parts. And, I think Rigney mentioned, one of the benefits of the group being like, if you don't know something, other people can help. The other benefits of the group are, if you don't have the bandwidth to do something, there are other people who probably will have the bandwidth to do it and like it's just a really supportive group and a really supportive community of postdocs, right? And so, if you're really fired up about like, one specific part of being a postdoc, and you want to kind of spearhead that, or you want to even just bring it to our attention, but you don't have the bandwidth to do it, that is exactly what we're looking for. And then, I think in line with that, another misconception is, "Oh, well, like, I have said things to people at the union. So, like, that's all I need to do." And that's, you know, we love the union around these parts. So, we would never be negative about that. I do want to draw the distinction that the union is for UC, right? So, our union represents, you know, they represent the interests of UCSF postdocs. But when it comes to what can be accomplished through collective bargaining, these are points that are going to be directly applicable to a postdoc at UCSF the same way it would be applicable to a postdoc at UC Irvine, or UCLA, or UC Berkeley. And there are some things that are going to be really specific to being at UCSF. Great example, gym fees, right. Based on the value of the student membership, postdocs are don't have access to that teir of membership, and are forced to pay the same as faculty members who on average start at a salary at that at or is at least like three times greater than Postdoc salary. Right? That is a thing that I think pre-COVID, we had built a fair amount of momentum advocating for and I think, you know, seeing how things play out and like having continued access to the gym and seeing how that goes, that is probably something that we will revisit, right? Or, you know, advocating for some of the resources, for example, post, students can call a Lyft home up to some amount of time or some amount of money, if they're on campus. The postdocs that don't really get that benefit, and we don't actually make that much more than students right now. So, you know, those are things that are outside the scope of the Union. But you know, when you think about kind of more serious issues that you might want to come to the PSA about, besides all of the great community building, those are things that we are really, I think, differently equipped to to address. What about, what do you think, Lin? I totally agree with what you just said, and I think one misconception people might have is they don't know, as we come to UCSF they immediately become part of our group. They are all members of the postal scholar associations. And we are, on the board is a group postdoc, among them just stand up help to better organize events, to gather resource to help each other. And no matter what you feel, you'll benefit from it. No matter if you have time to join us, we are welcome for that. If not, you also can be benefited out of it. Yeah, I think that is a really great point. And so I'll ask kind of this next question is, all right, there is a postdoc listening to this podcast right now. And they're not really sure they're like, "Alright, okay, like, this all sounds good. But I don't know if you can really help me." What would you say to them? Rigney, I would love to hear your thoughts first.
Rigney Turnham 28:26
I think what everything that we've said here too, like between our collective wisdom, our individual experiences, try us, come on, come find us on Slack, email, what else do we have? We have a Twitter account. I think it's postdocs at UCSF, @postdocsUCSF, Lin you can help me out there.
Lin Song 28:50
I'll want to say, send us an email, you'll be surprised yourself with the outcome. Yeah, we have our Twitter accounts. We have the Facebook and website that you can join. What do you think, Oleta?
Oleta Johnson 29:06
You know, I very much agree with Rigney, just try us. You know, I think I mean, I would like to think that we've made the point that like, we not only understand the experience of postdocs because we are postdocs, but I think because of our, our collective experiences as a group and just kind of the way that we try to engage and advocate for postdocs with different offices on campus and through our roles through the PSA and other leadership roles that we might have in our labs and our you know, institutes, in our departments, etc, etc. I think we are really well equipped to get you the quick route to the right person if we aren't the right people.
Rigney Turnham 29:50
Yeah, I think I would also plug to, and Oleta, you already said this, but our dean is Gabi Monsalve is amazing. So again, if you don't feel, if, so, if you're a postdoc wondering what we can do for you, and if you don't feel we are the right people, ask Gabi. She is fantastic. She will definitely point you in the right direction. But again, I will say that come and talk to us.
Oleta Johnson 30:18
Hi, Oleta here. I hope you're enjoying this episode. And if you are, be sure to check out the postdoc office website, that's postdocs.ucsf.edu to keep up with the latest resources, events, and programming, offered to help build community among postdocs, and to help your research and career goals. Also, I encourage you to reach out to any Postdoc Leadership Fellow, if you have any questions about what you're hearing in this episode, or if there's something else you'd like to hear that we haven't covered. And now back to the pod.
Lin Song 31:00
Why would you recommend that postdocs come to talk to us?
Oleta Johnson 31:04
I personally recommend that you just fine Rigney and awkwardly stand next to her and then--
Rigney Turnham 31:10
That sounds great.
Oleta Johnson 31:12
--be friends with her. It worked for me.
Rigney Turnham 31:14
Worked for Oleta.
Lin Song 31:19
Well, well said, I don't think I have anything to add on that. Because you guys are such wonderful people.
Rigney Turnham 31:27
I'm gonna have an entourage. It's gonna be so great. No, but really, come find me. I'm in Byers Hall, on Slack, email, Twitter. I'm kind of a lurker on Twitter, but I will respond. Oleta, what about you?
Oleta Johnson 31:43
Yeah, no, I mean, I think ASAP, as soon as you get here, day one, you know, or day 11, or any day, any day that you're just like, I don't know, I have a question or I want community or even I need a collaborator. Like, I think the networks and like the postdocs that, you know, I've encountered through my involvement in the PSA has really kind of helped me to identify people. Like, if I have an experiment that's not working for some reason, like I just, I'm like, oh, this person actually knows what they're doing. Let me go talk to them. So yeah, I mean, I just say, reach out to us come to a meeting, you know, we're nice people. There's nothing to lose, especially now in the age of zoom, where you can literally be in the lab and at the meeting. So, that's not to put any more pressure on you. Because this is not a pressure situation. Obviously, you opt in. You don't have to opt out. You just can opt in if you want. But, um, yeah, I say there's nothing, there's no good reason to wait because I just feel like PSA and PDIGs and everything that has to be offered there through advocacy community, etc, is just so positive. There's like nothing to lose. What about you, Lin? When do you think a postdoc should come in and see, reach out to the PSA or think about getting involved with a PDIG or anything like that?
Lin Song 33:14
I would say as early as day one because I personally benefit from day one I came to UCSF. You get new people, first build a friendship through the PSA. Also, I recently found a new collaborators through PSA. So, I think I've been benefit from day one, I would strongly recommend to come talk to PSA, anyone. If you come, you also, whenever you need can come to us.
Oleta Johnson 33:46
Yeah, I have a theory that if you come to the same point, at least twice from like different directions, different experiences, it must be real. And the fact that we're all like ASAP, must be true. So, there you go. That's science, folks. [laughs] So, um, I guess this is a really good question. And I think maybe we've hinted about this a little bit, but I think it is worth being really explicit about it. And so that question is how would we want postdocs to feel when they walk away from a PSA event or a PDIG event? Or from, like, having any sort of kind of contact or conversation with us? How do we want people to walk away feeling? Rigney?
Rigney Turnham 34:31
Thanks, that's such a good question. And I think going back to our mission and kind of at the beginning of this podcast, if postdocs attended an event or interacted with us in any sort of way, and came away feeling some sense of community or came away with more information that was important to them, then our goal was met. I think that we, we did our job, though our whole goal as the PSA is to foster an inclusive, supportive environemnet and community at UCSF. And so, I, I hope that we continue and we build on inclusivity and supportive community environment and, and yeah, that's a that's all I got. What about what about you, Lin?
Lin Song 35:18
I would say belonging. I wish other postdocs who come to us feel they belong to this community, no matter what your background, which langauge speak, what's your cultural background, education background, it doesn't matter or what you're planning to do in the future. It doesn't matter. You are belong to UCSF postdoc community, and speaking for myself, I already came from China, I studied medicine, and I came here doing lung cancer, but English is not even my first language, but I still meet amazing people here. It feels like a home to me, and I wish that for everyone else. How about you, Oleta?
Oleta Johnson 36:02
First of all, I just need the people to know that I was over here doing the slam poetry snaps as Lin is like "belonging" because I was like, "Yes, this is it." So, I'll just I'll just add, supporting, you know, if you walk away feeling like, alright, you know, these people are really invested in making sure that, you know, if they can make life easier for me as a postdoc here, they will try within their ability. I think, again, I think the goal has been met. Because we've all been there. We've all needed support, we all will always need support. Nobody does anything in isolation. And I think, I would say I think that's one of the like good things about UCSF overall, is that this is a place that I think overall, though it's not perfect, does have a culture of collaboration and support. And I think we really tried to do our best to take that culture and take it to the next level as much as we can in our roles.
Lin Song 37:04
Yeah, I really, very well said, really beautifully said Oleta. And we are indeed a hub for collaborations, here. And this brings us to the next question, what's your favorite thing about your work as a postdoc at UCSF or about your work for PSA or PDIGs?
Oleta Johnson 37:27
My favorite thing about being involved in the PSA, is, I think, just the diversity of experience, the diversity of perspectives, and just the openness and willingness to discuss any and everything. It's really a good space, and really a safe space to just talk about things. And, so, I think even when there are not a lot, there's not a lot for us to do or advocate or organize as a body, I can't understate how much sometimes like I just look forward to being on the Zoom call or being at the meeting with other postdocs, and just like, you know, just being. So, I would say that is probably one of my favorite things about being involved with the PSA. Similarly, with my PDIG, you know, like I said, I think it can be really hard, you know, if you are a queer person, if you are a Black person, if you are an indigenous person, if you are international, and you don't have a community here already, it can be really difficult to, you know, even in the most supportive environment to feel that sense of belonging. And I think sometimes just being able to be in a space where you see like, okay, like other people that look like me, or come from a similar background as me, or have the same interest as me, right, like they're here doing similar things to what I'm doing, and they have a life that is bigger than just the science. That is my favorite part about that my involvement with the PDIGs that I've been a part of, including Rigney's peer mentoring. And then my favorite thing as a postdoc is just how supportive and collaborative the research environment is here. You know, I think a lot of us have come from places that are awesome and have awesome labs and awesome science. But I always say that, you know, some places there's this like weird competition to prove that you're good enough. And I won't say weird because there are lots of pressures to do that, right? And for better or for worse, I think, at UCSF, everybody's just like, "You're here so you're awesome." And when you go in with that mindset, instead of like feeling like you need to prove something to people here. It's more so just like, "Oh, you are here and I am here and we're both great and we should make each other greater." And I think everybody kind of operates from that perspective. And I love, love, love that about the research environment here. So, those are my three Rigney. What about you?
Rigney Turnham 40:10
Thanks so much, Oleta. I agree with everything you just said about basically everything, said, everything's great. I will echo the feeling of collaboration and non competitiveness at UCSF as a postdoc. Again, I work, I'm the only postdoc in my lab currently, and working with other postdocs in my community has just been amazing. Everyone is, basically everyone wants everyone else to succeed. There's no competition that I've experienced, which I think is is very different, in what I hear is very different from from other universities. And similarly, my favorite thing about the PSA is just the way that we can use our, again, our experiences and our knowledge, and just tackling a problem or an inequality in postdocs lives. And again, how much everyone just really cares. Just the fact that everyone when we were in our PSA meetings, really enjoys talking, talking to each other and tackling these big problems, big or small problems. And again, finding a way to connect with each other is really at the goal of everything that we that we want to do. PDIGs. Oh, yeah, I, in my opinion, I just love, I am a problem solver. Like, you give me a task, I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna do it. I just don't want, I'm not gonna like, I'm the type of person who won't take a minute, which is probably a flaw to like, think about, like the best solution. I'm just like, let's do it. And so in my PDIG, the one of the things that I really love the most is just like, helping people figuring out like, the best way to do or like figuring out problems, and I just, it's talking to other postdocs, it's like figuring out with other postdocs again, using that like collective experience, and our collective wisdom and knowledge about these experiences that we might have is just like, so cool to me. And I, I really enjoy that part of the PDIG and, again, as the, of the PSA. Lin, what do you think?
Lin Song 42:13
I would say that for everything for me, when it comes to the PSA is meeting all the amazing people. Like you guys, with some, like a diverse background was so different to what I grew up experiencing. And we all came here. And I often say the most important treasure for UCSF is the people. And also all the knowledge the background we bring in to make this place a better place. The other day, I was talking with Oleta and she was originally trying to be a dancer. The way she grew up being educated is totally different. For me, I went to boarding school, like study already until eight to 10pm even in my childhood, which is this totally different thing. But we all end up here, we bring our different cultural backgrounds, bring our different knowledge to here. I think that's really something exciting me a lot, to know all the intriguing people. I think in general about my job where everything is, I feel I can do the cancer research here. With all the sorts, with all the technology, with some of them initally came from UCSF. I really feel lucky day to day to work on the project which utilizes all those high tech aids technologies, and I can do the research. I really feel lucky to be in this kind of environment. So, today for the last question, what is the one thing that you think you did for the postdocs that you didn't expect?
Oleta Johnson 43:58
But I think, in the interest of kind of being reflective, especially on a PSA. Again, our goal is to create community, it is hard to create one community that is completely inclusive of 1100 different people from different places with different experiences. And the power of these PDIGs, these postdoc interest groups, is that we don't have to create one, right? We have we create one community where everybody feels empowered to be themselves. We can facilitate micro communities that allow people to get get like an even greater sense of belonging. And I wouldn't say, over the three years that the three of us have been involved in PDIGs, we've had a an explosion of people kind of being involved in these postdoc interest groups. Now, whether they persist for many different years or whether they're just kind of like to meet immediate needs, you know, there's a lot of diversity there, but I would say we really wanted to be intentional when we came in, in making sure that we could support that infrastructure, and really empowering people to feel like you have control over your community. And we want you to have that. And we want to support you financially and logistically, and however we can. You know, I wouldn't say that we have done that. And that is something that, you know, I will say, it did kind of surprise me from this sense that coming into a system that already exists and coming up with like, ways to improve any existing system is really challenging. And there's always going to be bureaucracy, there's always going to be just random logistical problems. And of course, this is not a full time job for us, right, like, people spend 40 hours a week plus, solving these sorts of problems. And we're just kind of doing this on the side. So, I am so grateful for that. I think that is a win. I have been pleasantly surprised by how we've been able to accomplish the things that we have. And I am looking forward to continuing to do that with the help of Lin and with Rigney and the other members of our PSA and the postdoc office and everybody that's listening. Because, you know, we're all in this together, whether we're formally involved or not, like we're all in this together. So, I don't know. Rigney, what do you think? I love the analogy that you did, likr the umbrella like supporting community, and then having these like these micro, again, the PDIGs, that micro support system, the micro communities that we can help foster, I guess, and I just I really liked that analogy. I completely agree with that. Yeah, and again, what you just said about the, like, coming in and changing. Again, having this not be our full time job, but also coming in to something that has already kind of existed for a while, but maybe it existed in a not-sufficient way and change it. Like, basically not being afraid to scrap that and start over with something that's going to be sufficient and going to be sustainable after we leave. Because we're not going to this isn't our full time job, like we, we are still trainees here, we will go on to do amazing things, but having these systems in place. So it can also be here when we leave, I think has been one of the coolest things that I didn't expect. And I have been very grateful for everyone's everyone's ability to just kind of like tackle this problem and, like, just move forward. And I think it's been super cool. What do you think, Lin?
Lin Song 47:40
Yeah, I totally agree with what you just said. The thing PSA did that I didn't expect, there are so many, for example, the library which, as you said, is sustainable. And we will be always there to benefit all the incoming postdocs. Also including this podcast we are creating, we are always there. I think that's something I did not expect in terms of the positive impact we may create for the current postdoc and the future postdoc. I think the other thing I didn't expect is my role's impact on myself. I feel myself change a lot in the past couple years and in the UCSF. I think is strongly influenced by increasing the interaction with you guys because as an outsider I can hear not much of the history of the US, not much the culture of the US. Of course, I learned English but not still making a lot of grammar mistakes. But I learned in the past few years I know to speak out whenever I need to and I learned the social justice part, which I now expect. I will learn from that. And I also, one thing making me feel strongly is about when people all came from different backgrounds, the way the way that each person is sometimes is different. And sometimes there's no completely right or wrong black or white. Definition of a thing sometimes is came from the education background or the cultural background, but all the pieces go and there's something I learned over time is like people, different parts are the ones come here doing good. I think so something surprised me a lot. And since then, my overall worldview has changed.
Oleta Johnson 47:42
Lin, that is so powerful, and I'm so appreciative that you shared that because yes, I totally agree. I think that I've learned so much from you guys. And it's it's kind of crazy, right? Because we all went to grad school we've all been to many different places like that. We didn't go to grad school, you know where we grew up, you know, and so meeting different people, sometimes you're like alright people is people, I see how things operate. But I think that is a testament to kind of this specialness of our community here. So, I mean I love that I appreciate you guys so much. And the last thing I wanted to do is, I thought, Okay, well, you know, we have these new fresh postdocs coming to the bay. And you know, some people might be from the bay or moving from different parts of the bay, some people might be moving from other parts of the country or other countries, other parts of the world. So, I thought it would be nice to maybe talk about some things that you would recommend for a postdoc at UCSF to do or explore during their time here. So, it can be super local, it can be not super local, but things that you're like, "You're going to be here for, you know, a couple of years, definitely do this." So, I'm happy to start off. Obviously, this is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful place to live. And like the cool thing about the Bay Area is you can drive like 30 minutes in any direction and be in just the most beautiful nature. So, this weekend, I went on my first hike in Redwood Regional which is like in Oakland. And it was incredible and beautiful. I also I live in Berkeley and commute into the city. So, I also live walking distance to Tilden Park right now, which is again another like lovely, beautiful, like you feel like your escaped from the city, but you're like literally just like 20 minutes away sort of thing. So, I know a lot of people are always going to talk about all the cool nature stuff to do here. But like, you cannot oversell how gorgeous it is and like the weather is just always nice enough to do it. So, what do you think, Lin?
Lin Song 49:46
Well, I would definitely recommend the new postdocs check out hte redwoods because actually in our first podcasts we also had a guest point out this direction with, I would say strongly recommend. The other thing I would recommend new postdocs to check out is authentic cuisines hear from all different countries. My favorite Chinese food, for instance, is in the Sunset.
Oleta Johnson 52:13
Rigney, do you have any suggestions?
Rigney Turnham 52:16
Yeah, that's such a good question. I guess my thing is also outdoors and like what Lin just said to you about the cuisine. The food here is amazing. I mean, you can find any food that you enjoy. But I, but, while living here. I've gotten into biking more and so actually this last weekend I biked up Mount Tam which is a hike we wanted to do it maybe you don't maybe not the first thing to do when you get here but maybe like do a couple training rides to go up there but it's just beautiful. You can bike year round here, the, it's never too hot. It's never too cold. I mean, it probably gets super hot for like a week. And, again, and what Oleta just said, like, any outdoorsy nature things that you can get to, the other thing that's big here is camping. And again, it's up to like, definitely increase during the pandemic, too, is just getting out and car camping. So, that's been super fun to me. Lin, did you want to add anything else?
Lin Song 53:17
Yeah, totally. Actually, I just booked a campground in Joshua Tree National Park National Park, because I was there like, about a year ago. It's really amazing. I never saw trees growing like that in the desert and are strongly recommend that.
Oleta Johnson 53:33
So, I mean, this has been a really great conversation. And I really want to thank Rigney for coming and sharing her perspective with us and also for being a friend.
Rigney Turnham 53:50
Thank you both for having me on. Again, this is just like chatting, chatting with friends. It was like, I wish we could all actually be in the same room. We're doing this over zoom. But this was super fun. And I'm so happy that you both are the fellows for postdocs. I think the official title is Leadership Fellow, is that correct?
Oleta Johnson 54:10
Postdoc Leadership Fellows, yeah.
Rigney Turnham 54:11
Postdoc Leadership Fellow and just taking charge of again, redoing some of these things for sustainability. And I'm just so happy that I can call both of you friends.
Lin Song 54:24
Thank you so much. I feel really lucky to have you here, to have you both as friends and colleagues.
April Bell 54:36
Thank you for listening to the Postdoc Leadership Fellows podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. But more than that, we hope that it was helpful to you.
Oleta Johnson 54:44
And, if it was helpful to you, we encourage you to share this with any postdoc that you think might find this information useful.
Rachel Rudlaff 54:53
As a reminder, you can contact us at any time, you can find our information on the office of postdoctoral scholars website and you can also reach out to the postdoc office.
Lin Song 55:05
Thank you so much to listen to this episode.